<div>Hi list, I'll introduce myself with a claim:</div>
<div>&quot;Software is like Titanic, pleople claim it was unsinkable. Securing is providing it power steering&quot; </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>thesp0nge<br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/18/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Gadi Evron</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:ge@linuxbox.org">ge@linuxbox.org</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Rajeev Gopalakrishna wrote:<br>&gt; Reliability is concerned only with accidental failures while security has
<br>&gt; to consider malicious attacks as well. The difference is in the intent of<br>&gt; the software user: benign or malicious.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; And for a bumper sticker, here is one for the pessimists:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &quot;Secure Software is a Myth&quot;
<br>&gt;<br>&gt; and another version for the skeptics:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &quot;Is Secure Software a Myth?&quot;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; :)<br><br>Again, this would speak only to a very small percentage of the<br>population. You me, maybe 10K people around the world if we are generous.
<br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; -rajeev<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Peter G. Neumann wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; You suggest:<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Secure software is software that remains dependable despite efforts to
<br>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; compromise its dependability.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; You need a bigger-picture view that encompasses trustworthiness<br>&gt; &gt; and assurance.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &quot;Dependable systems are systems that remain dependable despite
<br>&gt; &gt; would-be compromises to their dependability.&quot;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &quot;Trustworthy systems are systems that are worthy of being trusted<br>&gt; &gt; to satisfy their requirements (for security, reliability, survivability,
<br>&gt; &gt; safety, or whatever).&quot;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Security is generally too narrow by itself, because a system that is<br>&gt; &gt; not reliable is not likely to be secure, especially when in<br>&gt; &gt; unreliability mode!
<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; The principle of Keep It Simple is inherently unworkable with respect to<br>&gt; &gt; security.&nbsp;&nbsp;Security is inherently complex.&nbsp;&nbsp;Trustworthiness is broader and<br>&gt; &gt; even more complex.&nbsp;&nbsp;But if you don't think about trustworthiness more
<br>&gt; &gt; broadly, what you get is not likely to be very secure.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Forget the bumper sticker approach.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L)
<br>&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:SC-L@securecoding.org">SC-L@securecoding.org</a><br>&gt; &gt; List information, subscriptions, etc - <a href="http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l">http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l</a><br>
&gt; &gt; List charter available at - <a href="http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php">http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php</a><br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L)
<br>&gt; <a href="mailto:SC-L@securecoding.org">SC-L@securecoding.org</a><br>&gt; List information, subscriptions, etc - <a href="http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l">http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l</a><br>&gt; List charter available at - 
<a href="http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php">http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php</a><br>&gt;<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L)<br><a href="mailto:SC-L@securecoding.org">
SC-L@securecoding.org</a><br>List information, subscriptions, etc - <a href="http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l">http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l</a><br>List charter available at - <a href="http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php">
http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>$&gt;cd /pub<br>$&gt;more beer<br><br>AngeL core developer: <a href="http://www.sikurezza.org/angel">http://www.sikurezza.org/angel
</a>